The Right Way to Go About Working with Startups

Host: Deepak Saini, Media Relations Chief, Science and Technology Directorate, Department of Homeland Security

Guest: Melissa Oh, Managing Director of the Silicon Valley Innovation Program, Science and Technology Directorate, Department of Homeland Security

[00:00:00] Melissa Oh: the startups, I think they're super excited because they see that the way the program is designed is set up so that they can continue to pursue their commercial development, their commercial roadmap. But that the federal government DHS can be a customer as well. And so, they see that, as an added benefit to what they're already developing, but also bringing a lot of mission and purpose, to what they're already passionate about, developing.

[00:00:28] Dave: This is Technologically Speaking, the official podcast for the Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate, or S&T as we call it. Join us as we meet the science and technology experts on the frontlines keeping America safe.

[00:00:42] Deepak: Hi, welcome to this edition of Technologically Speaking, a podcast from the DHS Science and Technology Directorate. I'm your host, Dee Saini. Today we have a very special guest, Melissa Oh. She's our Managing Director for the DHS S&T Silicon Valley Innovation Program. In her role, Melissa is responsible for engaging entrepreneurs and innovators to help them better understand her mission at DHS and widen the pipeline of technologies addressing our most difficult homeland security challenges. Welcome, Melissa.

[00:01:15] Melissa Oh: Thanks, Dee. Great to be here.

[00:01:17] Deepak: Yeah, good to have you on. So, we're going to talk about SVIP, the Silicon Valley Innovation Program, and all that comes with it. But first, let's address this first off the tops. When you think of Silicon Valley, you don't necessarily think of the government. Do you?

[00:01:34] Melissa Oh: No, definitely not. You definitely, you think of startups, you think of the tech ecosystem, you think of, the, those big tech companies that a lot of people use every day. And, so you're definitely not thinking of the government.

[00:01:47] Deepak: No, not at all. But, because of you and the significance of your role, we have such a married relationship here in the federal government at DHS, along with, tech innovators and incubators and a lot of tech companies, based in Silicon Valley and also throughout the globe. But first, let's dive into, what has it been like, you work for DHS S& T, you're based on the West Coast, but you're in the thriving hustle and bustle of Silicon Valley, and that's where I grew up as well, and I got to see it go through that change where it was just there. You know what I mean? It was just houses and strip malls and theme parks. What's it been like for you to see that kind of change in that part of the world?

[00:02:35] Melissa Oh: Yeah, it's definitely an interesting dynamic to have grown up and seen what it was like before. And I think it was very research driven before, just growing up and then definitely seeing a lot of the tech sector and a lot of companies starting to form and create, get created. So it is, it was interesting and exciting to see that happen, and then also then wanting to build that bridge back, to the government and really connect the two cultures. But yeah, it's exciting. It’s funny because they talked about, I've heard said before that the buildings aren't very tall so that people could see the sky and they could dream, and they can think of great ideas. And I like that.

[00:03:12] Deepak: I love that. I love that, too. So, what is it like being in the center of all of it and holding such an important mission for S&T here? There's got to be some value added and some benefits to be right in the thick of it.

[00:03:27] Melissa Oh: Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely really exciting because just being physically here. I think it sends a message to the tech sector that the government is really committed. DHS is really interested in working with innovators. and by being physically here, I'm able to connect and reach out to people much more easily. I'll get, LinkedIn, I'll get contacted, or I'll get a referral from a venture capitalist to talk to a startup that they're talking to that's interesting. And that might have application to the national security mission. And so just by being close to here, I'm able to connect more easily and then also get, go to startup meetups, go to different events that you wouldn't necessarily see in DC.

[00:04:09] Deepak: So, you've been at S& T since 2004. Congrats on 20 years with S&T.

[00:04:16] Melissa Oh: Thank you. Thank you. It feels like it was just yesterday.

[00:04:19] Deepak: Yeah, time flies when you're having fun, right? Let's go down memory lane a little bit. What kind of led you on your trajectory? When you were younger in school, did you want to do something completely different with your life?

[00:04:32] Melissa Oh: This was definitely not the path that either I thought I would be in, or my parents for that matter. Growing up in the Silicon Valley, in the Bay area, it just was natural to go into tech or something of that nature. And of course, being of Asian background, it's either law or medicine and not the government for one.

[00:04:53] Deepak: Oh yeah.

[00:04:54] Melissa Oh: And I studied cognitive neuroscience in undergrad at San Diego, UC San Diego and, then also did a minor in, in theater. So, I was interested and excited in some of the sort of the soft sciences and thought that I could find myself doing something related to technology, something related to the arts. And then 911 happened, basically going into my senior year of undergrad, and I just felt this need to contribute back. And so that was essentially my lightning bulb moment where I felt called into public service, and DHS hadn't even been stood up at that point, basically. So, going into my senior year, I was thinking, “What do I want to do? Do I still want to do tech? Do I want to go into national security?” And I actually took a few classes on national security and also continued down the path of doing tech. And I thought to myself, “Is there a somewhere to bring the two together?” And as I was going through my senior year, it became clear that there was going to be a Homeland Security, first office, then department, and so shortly after I graduated, I reached out and was connected into U.S. Customs Service at the time before it had even been turned into the U. S. Customs and Border Protection, and they had an Applied Technology Division. I was thinking, “Wow, that's exactly what I'm looking for.” And so, I ended up making my way out to DC. My parents weren't the most excited to have me moved to DC, especially because at that time there was a sniper.

[00:06:27] Deepak: Oh, I remember. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:34] Melissa Oh: But, apparently, I'm that kind of headstrong, and my parents ran into some friends of mine at the shopping mall at Valley Fair, and they said, uh, “Oh, you know, aren't you excited? Melissa is going to move to DC.” And they said, “Melissa is going to do whatever Melissa wants to do.” And that's how I ended up here. But yeah, no, I got into, Customs and Border Protection. They had an Applied Technology Division, their research and development side of the house, and got super dialed in and excited on working on technology associated with cargo security, container security, and then soon after, had connected in with the – what was forming was the Science and Technology Directorate. And it was just a natural fit. They asked if I wanted to move over into S&T and support their cargo security programs, and I did that as a contractor at first. And then in 2007, they flipped me to a fed position, and the rest has been history.

[00:07:30] Deepak: Yeah. Congratulations. I'm fascinated learning about your trajectory, right? When you were in college with 911 happening and how that kind of shaped your career. And what's interesting is a lot of us who work at DHS, we are driven by this mission and this purpose to serve our country. Nine-eleven was so impactful for many of us in many different ways. We have a strong purpose and we're doing impactful work, and sometimes some of those things result out of sometimes very tragic moments.

[00:08:06] Melissa Oh: Yeah, absolutely. I think the resilience comes from struggle, I think. And I think it's interesting to see that how we figure out ourselves through the struggle and figure out how to move, to use it and make us stronger and to pursue the things that I think bring us meaning and purpose.

[00:08:25] Deepak: Yeah, 100%. You said that so perfectly. And a huge scope of your job with the Silicon Valley Innovation Program is identifying the needs, right? The needs that are, need to be met throughout the department, right? Whether it's CBP, TSA or any of our other components. And a lot of those needs are being met by you and your connections and your hard work that you do, working with tech companies throughout the world, where not only they might have technology that they can quickly use that could be commercialized, but then it could be adapted to the work we do here at DHS, as well. So, let's dive into that. So, let's just start off with – What is the Silicon Valley Innovation Program and what do you do there?

[00:09:12] Melissa Oh: Yeah. So, the Silicon Valley Innovation Program was established to harness what was being developed by the commercial startup tech ecosystem. The innovative technologies that were being developed by startups weren't actually being leveraged and used very well by the federal government and DHS, in particular. And so, we were asked to figure out “How can we identify what those barriers of entry were to those startups from working with the government?” And so, we essentially reached out to the community in Silicon Valley, as well as other areas of the country to find out, “What were those challenges? Why aren't we using these technologies?” Or “Why aren't startups attracted to working with the government?” And so, through many, many conversations and workshopping, we designed a program that was really targeted to bringing those new technologies in and partnering and collaborating with startups and finding those pathways and avenues for startups to bring their technologies to our end users, to our DHS operational components, and to help see the value of their technologies being used for a national security mission. The companies, the startups, I think they're super excited because they see that the way the program is designed is set up so that they can continue to pursue their commercial development, their commercial roadmap. But that the federal government, DHS, can be a customer as well. And so, they see that as an added benefit to what they're already developing but also bringing a lot of mission and purpose to what they're already passionate about developing.

[00:10:59] Deepak: Yeah, and that's very valuable. And I understand that this sort of journey that you take the tech companies on to not only serve the mission of our department and our 22 components, but also for their own needs in the private sector. But I understand this has to happen in phases, correct? And can you walk us through how those phases work?

[00:11:19] Melissa Oh: Yeah, so the way the SVIP program is structured is we have four phases for the companies to go through, and each phase is structured so that the companies can progressively achieve greater and greater capabilities and milestones. The first phase is really a proof of concept. It's that opportunity for not just the startup to determine if working with the government is a good fit, but it's also for DHS to determine if this technology will actually serve the needs of our end users. And, from the proof of concept, if they're successful in demonstrating that, then we'll invite the company into phase two, which is where they will fully bake in DHS’s requirements into their prototype. And, uh, if they're successful in demonstrating that, then we'll invite them to phase three, which is where we do a lot of testing, red team testing, functional testing. Basically, make sure that the technology does what it says it's supposed to do but also making sure, too, it meets the parameters, whether it's security, privacy, IT and all that sort of thing. Once we can determine that they're successful in meeting those requirements, then we'll invite them to phase four, where they can test in a representative, operational environment and really get a lot of groundwork on their technologies. But I will say that throughout all four phases, the operational end users and components are involved throughout the process. They're actually involved in the selection of the companies, because it doesn't make sense for us to find a great technology if the operator thinks that there's no way this technology will be used in the field.

[00:13:01] Deepak: Oh, that makes sense. Yeah.

[00:13:03] Melissa Oh: Yeah, so it's really a collective team effort from both S&T, on providing the subject matter expertise on the technology, but also the operators in determining its utility and its value in the field and meeting their operational missions.

[00:13:18] Deepak: So, do you then first start by working with the operators or components to figure out what their needs are or what the threats are that they're trying to address that they need tech for, and then putting out solicitations and topic calls for those for companies to apply?

[00:13:37] Melissa Oh: Yeah, exactly. It is just what you said, the, we work with our operational end users and customers to identify what some of their pain points are and what some of the use cases are. And that's, we coordinate a lot, not just with the components, but also with our colleagues in S&T that are the portfolio managers and program managers that have been working with these components. And they have a great understanding of where some of the challenges are. But, at the same time, it's a matter of me being here in Silicon Valley and also just a lot of, through our network of VCs and incubators around the country and around the world that are aware of what technologies are out there, what are, what's in stealth, what can support homeland security and public safety and national security. And it's trying to find the Venn between the capabilities that are out there but also the needs of our users. Because in the end, we, what our goals are to shape commercial products to meet DHS needs. So, not all technologies that are being developed commercially are going to meet DHS's needs, and not all of DHS's needs align with a commercial product either. So, it is a matter of trying to find the right balance between the two and where there's a lot of mutual benefit between our organizations.

[00:14:59] Deepak: Yeah, that makes sense. And the great thing about tech is you can configure it for a diverse set of needs, depending on what those are, as long as you have sort of a, I would say a base.

[00:15:09] Melissa Oh: Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes it's just a matter of helping them see that, right? Because you can have a company that's working on computer vision technology and their primary market is retail, right? And they're trying to help shopping, grocery stores deploy self-checkout technologies. They may not have actually realized that perhaps some of that same computer vision technology have application to TSA as they're exploring self-screening capabilities. So, it's super exciting to help. I love actually helping see what they hadn't seen before, but part of the magic is them seeing that, as well. So, we make a very strong effort to try to not be prescriptive of what we're looking for. Focus on what the pain point is, what the challenges are, and the companies, these founders, they're great at figuring out how to solve hard problems. And we may identify and learn about a technology that we never thought could solve that problem.

[00:16:11] Deepak: That's amazing. So are there certain times, certain threats that SVIP is addressing? Or do they change as time changes, as the world changes, as technology changes? You know what I mean?

[00:16:25] Melissa Oh: I will say that cybersecurity is an ongoing area of concern that we definitely are coordinating with our cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency to identify where there may be opportunities to mobilize the startup community to help us. And we're actively talking about some of our next new topics in that area. But, in general, I would agree with you. I think that the topics that we put out and the topics that we coordinate with our operational components on, on identifying and soliciting from the startup community, it varies based on the, where technology is going. So, technology is both a solution, but it can also be a vector for new threats. And so, a lot of the times, the way we work out the topics is through a lot of conversations and where some of those challenges and pain points they're seeing are, but also helping them see where the latest and greatest in technology is. So, with those phases that I mentioned earlier, we are looking for solutions that can be commercialized and productized within two to three years. So, that is actually fairly fast, when we're talking about technology and deployment.

[00:17:39] Deepak: The federal government has this notorious reputation for being overly bureaucratic and slow, while the private sector seems to move at the speed of light, and you're at the intersection of both of them. Right? How do you navigate that?

[00:17:53] Melissa Oh: Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, it's definitely an interesting dialogue to help startups understand where we come from, because we can't, we still can't get away from the fact that there are checks and balances in the government for a good reason. And that is often what tends to slow us down. But I've been told that I'm an “intrapreneur,” so I look at where actually some of those processes within our own systems, can be made more efficient. I've found that through communicating more clearly with our internal organization, we can really streamline things a lot better. Because a lot of times. what we had heard before was these companies, they'd send something in, and it was just like this black hole. They don't hear back from the government. And if they do, it's months later and with no information. It’s just a no. Whereas, I have found that they would benefit if we can provide some feedback. And so, that's what we've done is we've built it into our process to ensure transparency and just regular updates and letting them know where we are, why we made the decisions we did. And for, actually, the startups, they appreciate that because they can just move on, right?

[00:19:04] Deepak: Melissa, what sort of feedback do you get from the startups that have gone through the SVIP program?

[00:19:10] Melissa Oh: Oh yeah. The startups have told us that the program has been extremely valuable to them, not just from the standpoint of funding the development the adaptation of their technology, but also the connections that they're making with the end users. It's not often that they actually get to talk to real users in the field, operators that would use their technologies. And so, by being able to talk to them, interview them, collaborate with them, iterate on their product, they're finding so much more value in that relationship and the connection that the program has been able to provide. But beyond that, the companies have been able to raise additional capital when they're making their next funding round. They have been able to talk about the projects and they've been able to ask their, these potential VCs to talk to us to understand what are the pain points that we're solving or they're solving for us. And that has actually helped them raise that next round of capital for them because they can talk about our projects together.

[00:20:12] Deepak: That's great. Feedback's always helpful, right? Because it helps you feed forward.

[00:20:17] Melissa Oh: Exactly. I always see the program as continuing to evolve, right? Because this isn't, even though the program's been around for eight years, I feel that this is still very young for government in terms of finding the right connections, the relationships and the right way to go about working with startups. And where the program started when we first began eight years ago and a lot of what I did back then was even just introducing who DHS was. And now I don't really need to do that, but now I need to really hone and refine the program. So, we're providing both benefit to the startup but also to our operational end users too.

[00:20:59] Deepak: Do other government agencies reach out to you that may not have something like an SVIP and just inquire and want to know how it's working or how they may be able to adapt that for themselves?

[00:21:13] Melissa Oh: Yeah, all the time. I get both federal, state agencies, international agencies reaching out to me. I'm even having a meeting with the Consul General of Uruguay next week.

[00:21:25] Deepak: Oh, wow.

[00:21:26] Melissa Oh: And yeah, exactly. So, it's exciting because I think, for each organization I'll say, right? Because it could be an agency. It could be a country. Each organization has their own laws, authorities, constraints, the way they have to operate. And so, when I talk to them, I don't just say, “Oh, you have to do your program just like mine.” I ask them a series of questions of, “What are you trying to achieve? What's your timeline? What are your goals?” And then it helps them think through how to build a program similar to SVIP, or at least knowing what they can. And one of the, one of the most exciting ones that I saw recently that I helped consult on is with Singapore, the government of Singapore. They have now a counterpart program like SVIP in Singapore, on Homeland Security and Public Safety, and they launched last year and they're doing, they're doing a ton of work with startups now and it's super exciting to see.

[00:22:20] Deepak: It's interesting how you're helping pay it forward with everything you've built yourself and have accrued over time that to help pay it forward. That's great.

[00:22:30] Melissa Oh: Yeah, it's, I don't see this as my intellectual property. I, it's like, if it works for me – here, use it. It's like open IP, and I think it's just me contributing and trying to, I'm a public good technologist, as my colleague Anil calls it. I just want to do what's good for everybody.

[00:22:47] Deepak: I know, just in the past few years, we've issued announcements that have to do with wearables or flood data collection and analysis. Walk us through some of those projects and how they started and their impacts.

[00:23:01] Melissa Oh: Yeah. So, these are great areas that you mentioned, wearables is huge, right? We're, we definitely know that consumer wearables, your Apple watches, your garments. Nowadays, everybody expects these types of technologies to help give them more data about themselves. And so, in discussions with Customs and Border Protection, they have border agents in the field that are often struggling with heat distress and not knowing when they need to actually take a break. And so, we started to explore these types of wearable technologies for them to better understand their bodies and when it's time to take a break. And often these wearables that you can get at the store, they don't meet the needs exactly for the agents in the field, whether it's because the environment is too austere, or it doesn't track the data in the way that they need it to. And so, that's why we went out with, to the startup community to say, “Hey, we have this need. We'd like to see wearables for indicating heat distress and other indicators for an agent in the field.” And we got a lot of responses and have been working with a number of companies now for the last couple of years. Actually, this topic went out during COVID, during the pandemic, and so, um, I think, entering phase three with a number of the companies. And so, that's exciting to see where we are with those technologies. And going through the testing, we have a number of the wearables that are with our agents now that are being evaluated, and so we're really hopeful to get those results pretty soon and be able to further shape these products so that they can be more operationally deployed and hopefully in the near future.

[00:24:45] Deepak: Yeah, and that's really impactful work. So, let's talk about the flood data collection and analysis. A lot of that helps FEMA, and this summer we're already experiencing record floods, record fires, hurricane season’s already off to a big punch of a start. And talk to us a little bit about how this need came about, what the tech, the promise of the tech is, and the status of this project.

[00:25:10] Melissa Oh: Yeah. So, this, project is exciting because we're working with FEMA and specifically the federal insurance and mitigation administration within FEMA. And this is an area where it was very important for them because, as they are trying to process insurance claims and for flood victims, in order to be able to process those much more efficiently and quickly, they need to be able to have the right data in order to make those determinations and decisions. And so, reaching out to a lot of the startups was an interesting new path for us, to mobilize startups. We hadn't actually looked into the insure-tech startup space before, but FEMA is actually one of the largest insurers of flood insurance out there. We felt that this was a really great opportunity for those startups to partner with us. And so, we're working with three companies now, two are based in the U.S. and one is actually based in Australia. And so, it's pretty exciting. The companies are in phases two and three right now. And what that means is that they've already developed some prototypes of how to, not just predict where flooding would be, but also where water currently is, where water is going to be and then also where it receded. And so, a lot of that data is really important for FIMA in order to make those determinations. But beyond just FIMA, our colleagues in FEMA are actually coordinating application to the FEMA mission, and so it's exciting to see that one technology that we brought in for a specific use case and need may actually have broader use cases and needs. And what's pretty neat about SVIP is that we have that flexibility to bring in additional component partners as they learn about the technology.

[00:26:59] Deepak: Yeah, no, that's a huge value add. The other thing I want to talk about is your team holds annual SVIP Demo Weeks. It's an event that brings together participants from the public and private sectors from across the country. They discuss tech innovation. It's really neat. How did the idea for doing a demo week come about? And what has that journey been like for you and your team?

[00:27:21] Melissa Oh: Yeah, the Demo Week was exciting because we, for one, it was me being very proud of the work that our startups are doing. And so, I wanted to showcase what they're doing. And there's a lot of demo days that occur out here in Silicon Valley all the time, right? There's pitch days, demo days. And I thought, “Why shouldn't we have one?” But in DC, because in, for what it's worth, like these startups are looking to work with DHS, right? They decided to take their commercial technology and figure out how it can be adapted for DHS's needs. But as they're considering DHS as a new customer, why not other government customers, right? And so, the Demo Week is an opportunity for those startups to potentially find new customers in the federal space. And so, that's why we conduct the Demo Week in DC and make it accessible for federal agencies, state and local agencies, even like hospital systems have come.

[00:28:17] Deepak: That’s great.

[00:28:17] Melissa Oh: So, it's pretty exciting to see that the technology has application beyond just DHS. And, also, I have another motivation is it brings our startups physically together, and it gives them an opportunity to meet each other and find potential new avenues for collaboration and partnerships. And I've heard of a number of those companies say that they met another startup in the SVIP cohort, and it either helped them either identify, like, “How do we work with this agency?” Or, “Hey, I'm thinking of proposing, to this RFP, do you want to partner with me on it?” And a lot of those types of collaborations and collisions have occurred at Demo Week.

[00:28:58] Deepak: Yeah. And you know what I really like too is the agenda is robust and you'll have panel sessions where these companies actually get to hear from the customers themselves, right? Whether it's CBP or CISA or TSA. There'll be folks that are either agents or officers or frontline responders that get to speak on panels at SVIP Demo Week and talk about what they're experiencing in the field.

[00:29:25] Melissa Oh: Exactly. Yeah. And a lot of the companies, they may be working right now on a project with TSA, but they didn't realize that “Oh, CBP has a pain point that where this technology may have application to as well.” And so that gives them, yeah, a lot of opportunity to hear the much more broad set of missions that DHS covers. So, yeah. And yeah, I really like having those panels where it's an operator talking about what keeps them up at night, because that's where the startups are great because they're like, “Okay, I can help. I think I can solve this problem in that way.” That's where a lot of these, great ideas are formed from realizing that technology can have that application for this interesting pain point and use case, and then it gets them inspired because they know that this can help a mission need and a public to help the public in Homeland Security.

[00:30:18] Deepak: Oh, 100%. And I understand this is the first year you had startups provide demos in a shark tank format.

[00:30:24] Melissa Oh: Yeah, exactly. It was fun because we always want the startups to, to do their pitches, to talk about their technologies and the value it brings. And normally we have audience Q and A, but in this time around, I thought, “Hey, why don't we have experts on stage like a shark tank?” And so, we had for each startup, there were three sharks, quote, unquote, and they brought either a business lens, an operational lens, or a technical lens to the table. And it helped. The startups found it extremely valuable, and I think the audience did, too. Because sometimes, as an audience member, you don't know what question you want to ask, but these experts on stage are asking really pointed, valuable questions. And I know that, that's, at least our startups have all told us like “Let's do that again next year.” And they, and it's, it was super exciting to have those participants because it offers startups an opportunity to get their information out to people that wouldn't necessarily have heard it before, but also for them to be asked questions that they never thought of. And so that was something we'll definitely repeat next year.

[00:31:28] Deepak: So, in this conversation that we've had, I have found it very valuable to see how you and your team work really hard to help fulfill the DHS mission, but also these private sector companies also do get a boost up to meet their goals as well. What do you think makes SVIP so critical at this point in time with where we are in the world? With everything that's going on, just curious to see where you feel like your impact or your value add fits in.

[00:32:00] Melissa Oh: Yeah, well, I definitely think that where SVIP fits into this in where we are in the world today is I think we're seeing a convergence of technology and mission playing a huge part in the strategies that companies are making decisions to taking, whether or not they think that their technologies have a dual use value in both commercial and national security. I think that. as companies come out of the pandemic and how, how our world climate and everything all around it is shaping the types of technologies that are being developed and the types of companies they want to be, I think that we are in a position right now to help shape what they think they should be doing and what they can be doing in support of public safety and home and security. I know there's a number of other agencies out there that are also looking to partner with startups, as well. And finding those avenues for collaboration and partnership. I think we're reaching that point again in the world where government and tech are finding a nice niche of working together and working with each other. So, it's super exciting.

[00:33:15] Deepak: Yeah, and I think we have to with the amount of threats we face and how fast they're accelerating. What advice do you have for startups that are interested in developing tech for the government?

[00:33:30] Melissa Oh: Yeah, I think for a startup that's thinking of working on tech with the government, particularly if they're working on the commercial capability right now is, first, to do some research and understand what the mission is of DHS, what our pain points are. And then, as we put out our calls, identify whether or not that, that technology that they're developing could have application. We may not realize that it could, and it's valuable for us to know when a company has done their research and has figured out what some of our pain points are. It's not helpful when a startup comes in and compares us to Department of Defense, for example, that we're not. We have very different missions, and it's much better if they can tailor their submission as it relates to our specific operators and our mission and the challenges that we face. I think there's a lot of information already out there about DHS and what our pain points and challenges are. So, I think that would make them much more competitive if they do some research up front.

[00:34:37] Deepak: You know that we work really hard here at S&T. It's an honor to work alongside you and to amplify the important work that you and your team do, and thank you for being on this episode. It’s been great to hear about the Silicon Valley Innovation Program, the exciting use cases, the examples of valuable projects that are in the process or have transitioned on and what's ahead as well. Thank you for your time.

[00:35:07] Melissa Oh: Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to learn about my story and hear about the program.

[00:35:09] Deepak: Yeah. Thank you, Melissa. Melissa Oh, Managing Director for the Silicon Valley Innovation Program. Thank you for being on. Happy to have you.

[00:35:21] Dave: Thank you for listening to Technologically Speaking. To learn more about what you've heard in this episode, check out the show notes on our website, and follow us on Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and on social media at DHS SciTech. D H S S C I T E C H. Bye!

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