S&T and its National Urban Security Technology Laboratory (NUSTL) recently joined the U.S. Fire Administration and the Fire Department of the City of New York (FDNY) for a workshop to address best practices and research needs for fighting lithium-ion battery fires. In this minisode, which was recorded at the FDNY Training Academy on Randall’s Island, you will hear from each agency about firsthand experiences firefighters are facing with electrification and how New York City serves as a model for other jurisdictions nationwide. In addition, S&T Acting Under Secretary Julie Brewer and NUSTL Division Director Orly Amir share how this issue is driving S&T research to support our first responders.
Show Notes
Guests: Chief Fire Marshal Daniel Flynn, Fire Department of the City of New York, Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell, former U.S. Fire Administrator, Commissioner Robert Tucker, Fire Department of the City of New York, Julie Brewer, Acting Under Secretary for Science and Technology Directorate, and Orly Amir Division Director, National Urban Security Technology Laboratory.
Host: Dave DeLizza, Science and Technology Directorate.
[00:00:00] Chief Flynn: The fire is so intense, that it does not respond in the traditional ways that we've seen fire in the past. Smoke detectors, they may not save your life with this type of fire. This fire goes from zero to a hundred in a second. The smoke detector generally indicates a small fire that, that will, eventually grow into a big fire. This fire is a tremendous, intense fire immediately.
[00:00:20] Dave DeLizza: Welcome to TechSpeak, a mini episode of the Technologically Speaking Podcast. I'm Dave, Sound Editor for S&T.
[00:00:27] In October, we joined the U.S. Fire Administration and the Fire Department of the City of New York at a workshop at the FDNY Training Academy on Randall’s Island to address best practices and research needs for fighting lithium-ion battery fires.
[00:00:39] At the start, you heard Chief Fire Marshal Daniel Flynn speak about firsthand experiences firefighters are having combating these fires. You'll hear more from him in a bit. First, let's hear more from former U.S. Fire Administrator Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell on the growing scope of the problem.
[00:00:52] Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell: We've had three minutes, three minutes to escape a fire in anyone's home. It gave you a little bit of time to, to organize, to evacuate in a lithium-ion battery fire. We have less than 15 seconds. And often these are indicated by not just the thermal runaway, not just the heavy smoke, but the explosive nature of the fires that blow out windows, that burn homes, apartments, and businesses.
[00:01:18] Dave DeLizza: Here's Chief Marshall Flynn to tell us more about the special nature of fires caused by lithium-ion batteries and how the FDNY is preparing for battle.
[00:01:26] Chief Flynn: The data that we've collected here in the city shows that the fires actually occur more often while not charging. I have people come up to me and say, I, I have one in my house, but it's okay because I don't charge it overnight. I said, you have a very false sense of security if you think that's the case. Our marshals, we've developed a lithium-ion battery checklist we require every marshal to complete when they do determine that the fire was caused by a lithium-ion battery.
[00:01:50] Dave DeLizza: FDNY Commissioner Robert Tucker explains how other cities can learn from what New York City has experienced.
[00:01:57] Commissioner Tucker: We're aware that what happens in New York eventually happens in the rest of the country and probably the world. For the last three years, the FDNY has led the charge on this issue, and we've seen incredible amounts of fires, injuries, and even deaths caused by these batteries. We've inundated the public with information about best practices for using these batteries. We think education is crucial to helping the city fully understand the risks of these batteries when they're damaged and uncertified or improperly stored or tampered with. A key recommendation that we know brings significant challenges, but it's worth repeating – charge and store these mobility devices outside when possible. We think our efforts are working actually. The numbers of structural fires are down, and the number of nonstructural fires is up.
[00:02:57] Dave DeLizza: S&T Acting Undersecretary Julie Brewer expands on the research gaps the team identified since New York raised the issue and the trajectory forward for the national firefighting community it spurred.
[00:03:07] Julie Brewer: Three years ago, when the FDNY brought this to our attention as a priority, it's obviously something we were tracking in our standards world, but really seeing what was taking place in the loss of life, in the threat to our firefighters, in the new ways that fires were proliferating, the FDNY was the first one that really saw it as a priority. We did find three important facts, and the first was: There is a significant gap between battery design and safety. Number two: There really wasn't a single entity that understood the landscape of what research was going on and where we had the biggest gaps in knowledge. And finally: the current safety work done in this area was really, it was very much at the time focused on cars. There wasn't a lot of discussion around the scooter environment, around the hoverboards, around what was being stored in the basements of homes.
[00:04:04] Dave DeLizza: S&T's National Urban Security Technology Laboratory was instrumental in bringing these key players together, and the National Lab continues to work with the FDNY and U.S. Fire Administration on solutions. Here's Division Director Orly Amir speaking to critical areas of R&D that are already underway.
[00:04:20] Orly Amir: There's a lot to understand in terms of the health and safety impacts for first responders. So, understanding what the off gases are, understanding what that means, understanding what that means on PPE, on their gear, understanding what that means to their communities that they work for, that they support. And, so the idea is, S&T's goal is always to do the research, do the science, so that you allow first responders to be able to make good tactical decisions based off of sound research. FDNY came directly to us and said, “We're concerned about this hazard. What do you know?” And, realistically, we didn't know anything. And so we started saying, okay, let's look into this. And so, we conducted like a landscape analysis where we talked to a lot of federal agencies, national labs, nonprofits, research organizations, academia, and say: “What are you doing in this space?” There was a lot that was happening on the electric vehicle side, but there wasn't a lot happening in other types of problem areas. Over the last three years, I think that has significantly changed.
[00:05:23] Dave DeLizza: Finally, we'll leave you with some final thoughts from Julie Brewer on why S&T will prioritize supporting first responders moving forward.
[00:05:32] Julie Brewer: These lithium battery fires are just becoming a part of who we are and a significant energy source for us that's important for carbon reduction. Knowing that this is going to continue to grow and continue to be a challenge that we can learn from, what the fire department of New York and other firefighters have seen across the U.S. to hopefully help the entire firefighter community going forward, is what I'm excited about.
[00:05:58] Dave DeLizza: We know that this issue continues to spark a lot of interest and S&T is hot on the case. Thanks for listening and be sure to follow us at DHS SciTech. DHS SCI T E C H Bye!